Agile Mentors Interview With John Miller

In this article, you get a break from reading and get to sit back and listen. I had the pleasure of being interviewed by Brian Milner on the Agile Mentors Podcast about the origins and evolution of Agile in classrooms. Brian is a fantastic facilitator and interviewer and made it easy.

I hope you enjoy the interview, which can be found at

Apple Podcast

Google Podcasts


If you want to skip to the sections that interest you, below is a breakdown from the Agile Mentors page:

Today on the show, John joins Brian to share how he started introducing the Agile framework to educators. He walks us through how Agile classrooms help students solve complex problems while developing decision-making skills. He’ll share how converting to an Agile classroom creates deeper, more fulfilling student and teacher relationships and the steps teachers can take to make their classroom an Agile classroom.

Listen now to discover:

[01:27] – Brian introduces John Miller and explains how, as a CEC, he’s reached the highest rung on the Scrum Alliance certification ladder.

[03:33] – How John got started with bringing Agile to the classroom.

[06:09] – The collaboration between John and the educators to achieve the goal of creating a self-managing classroom.

[09:45] – John shares how he went from thinking he’d ruined one class’s education to watching them become one of the best self-managing groups he’s ever seen.

[12:16] – How children’s lack of preconceived notions about how things are supposed to work helps them create teams that work.

[13:48] – How an Agile classroom empowers students of all levels and learning abilities.

[14:36] – The five levels of choice in an Agile classroom.

[15:44] – John shares the objective of Agile classrooms to help students solve complex problems by developing choice-making skills.

[17:55] – Brian shares that “Scrum is a sports analogy.”

[19:33] – Dark Scrum vs. Bright Scrum. John shares the formula he created using Ron Jeffries’ term Dark Scrum.

[24:06] – Is Agile dead, or are people just doing it wrong?

[25:13] – John shares the levels of classrooms where Agile works best. Plus, which one did he work with that made him more nervous than high-level CEOs?

[27:12] – John explains how the different dynamics lead to different success outcomes for incorporating Scrum into the classroom.

[28:42] – What size classrooms achieve the most benefits from working with Scrum?

[29:44] – John shares the steps teachers can take to make their classroom an Agile classroom.

[31:20] – How converting to an Agile classroom creates deeper, more fulfilling teacher-student relationships.

[31:53] – How Agile in the classroom acts as a bridge to industry and a life skills primer.

References and resources mentioned in the show

Agile Mentors Community

Scrum Alliance

Agile Classrooms

Dark Scrum

Agile Manifesto

McGregor’s Theory